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#1
6th January 2010, 03:44 PM
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Puppies at Pet Stores
Is there a set amount of time a pet shop will keep a puppy for sale? Say, for example, they puppy arrives at the shop, will they give it 6 months to be sold? I can't imagine they keep them indefinitely.
What happens to the puppies that don't sell? I know there can't be too many options. Open the back door, drop them off at a shelter, return them to the puppy mill? Worse? We don't have too many malls around here that have pet shops, and I usually just go to Petsmart or Petco and only see cats for sale. I vaguely remember checking out puppies for a smile at pet shops about 10 years ago, and there seemed to be 100% turnover. Anyone know what happens to the puppies that don't sell? 
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#2
6th January 2010, 04:49 PM
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Puppies at pet stores R sad.
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#3
6th January 2010, 06:05 PM
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I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming as the age goes up, the price goes down.
A little while back, I saw some goldens at the local Petland, and they were getting pretty big. Seems to me they weren't asking much for them, compared to the smaller puppies.
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#4
6th January 2010, 08:50 PM
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PetCo and Petsmart both get their puppies and kittens from local shelters. When the animal's shelter time is up--say, they keep them for 30 days--if no one has adopted them, then they go back to the shelter to be euthanized. I don't know about independent or other chain pet stores, though.
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#5
6th January 2010, 09:35 PM
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#6
7th January 2010, 02:37 AM
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Looking at the bright side (if you could call it that), the puppies and kittens at PetCo and PetsMart are getting a pretty good marketing deal/are exposed to many more people so they are increasing their chances to find an owner.
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#7
7th January 2010, 04:47 AM
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I found my oldest cat via a groomer who had an agreement with a very rural Humane Society shelter. She would "borrow" cats and keep them in her (urban) shop for adoption because the shelter didn't get enough foot traffic out in the sticks. I admire what PetCo and PetsMart do for adoptable animals.
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#8
7th January 2010, 05:12 AM
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Yeah, our local big box pet stores will allow shelters to come in there, usually Saturdays, to try to get some of their dogs adopted.
I'm thinking more like small, independent, "mom & pop" or "Pet World," and "Pups 'R' Us" kinds of places you find in strip malls, malls, and the like. Just wonder if each puppy has a schedule and if they're not sold by the alloted time, what happens? Like Satellite said, some will be discounted...then what?
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#9
7th January 2010, 05:34 AM
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There's no one answer - it varies by pet store. It's in the store's best interest to slash the price until the animal goes, of course. Taking little money for a pup is better than none.
Sometimes they're returned to the mill or breeder. They could be used as breeding stock I suppose. Sometimes they're turned over to rescue organizations. Sometimes they're euthanized.
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#10
7th January 2010, 05:54 AM
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Hmmm...
Anyone know if certain "backyard" breeders have a sort of consignment arrangement with pet stores? I'm not writing an exposé or anything, I'm just curious! Thanks you all the responses so far 
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#11
7th January 2010, 09:39 AM
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this thread is
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#12
7th January 2010, 10:41 AM
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#13
7th January 2010, 11:33 AM
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That makes me want to barf. And you're right...they (backyard breeders) ruin it for the rest of us.
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#14
7th January 2010, 11:42 AM
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Yeah, it was pretty fucked up--I try not to be too strident about it but any time I hear of someone buying a puppy from someone who intentionally bred it or who allowed their bitch out when they can't be arsed to spay it makes me want to hit people with baseball bats. Yes, this includes my sister who bought a designer doodlemutt--I understand her reasoning and it's a cute dog but I still wish she'd gotten her puppy from Petfinder.
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#15
7th January 2010, 11:53 AM
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When we got my last dog, the whole shelter dog movement thing hadn't really taken off. The education just wasn't there. Luckily, my experience had been with people who actually took the time to educate me like a human being instead of attacking me, like I see all to often today.
We've been glued to rescues and Petfinder over the last couple of years. It really is heartbreaking, but so many people really just have no idea. I've never seen a mean Golden Retriever, but my brother's ex (who I'm still very close to) got their golden from a strip mall pet store and he is pure evil. He's snapped at pretty much everyone. He'll sit in front of you to be pet and growls. And, I don't think he likes white people very much! CLEARLY not in the golden retriever breed standard!
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#16
7th January 2010, 11:56 AM
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Yeah, puppy mill pups are the worst, they're damaged from the minute the sperm hit the egg, really. Sure, you MIGHT get one that turns out okay, but from looking at the shelter dogs I'd say not so much. Lot of "purebred" dogs in there. Surrendered as young adults. For behavioral issues. Uh huh.
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#17
7th January 2010, 12:09 PM
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Yeah, we got our last dog from a breeder.
He was the best dog I ever had. Thousands of dollars and weeks of pain and discomfort for him after being diagnosed with bloat and having gastropexy surgery. He ended up dying after 7 and a half years from internal bleeding from tumors I didn't even know he had. In my sadness, I decided to do some retrospective research on the breeder (I was 19 when we got him and didn't really research much with my parents...just looked for a black german shepherd breeder in the area). I found a website where she had a pending case for selling to puppy mills...and used several aliases...bitch.
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#18
7th January 2010, 01:20 PM
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There's a heartbreaking documentary from the BBC that spells out in excruciating and harrowing detail what our mania for "purebred" dogs is doing to those breeds. I will never have another intentionally bred, pure breed dog, not even from a breed rescue. The risks are just too high and I like having the hybrid vigor of the mutt to keep my vet bills down!
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#20
7th January 2010, 01:52 PM
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Give me a mutt any old day.
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#21
7th January 2010, 03:01 PM
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#22
7th January 2010, 03:03 PM
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#23
7th January 2010, 03:11 PM
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that 'documentary' is nothing but propaganda. They want the sensationalism of showing the WORST of the worst. They ignore the show breeders that are doing it RIGHT... which is most of them.
Responsible show breeders don't do it for money. They do it for thew love of the breed. They put YEARS into learning about their chosen breed, studying conformation and pedigrees. They invest thousands of dollars into showing their dogs and doing the health testing required for their breed. They rarely even break even when they sell a litter. They offer lifetime health guarantees on their puppies, and will take back a dog of their breeding at ANY TIME in that dog's life. They are often heavily involved with rescue as well. No... that stupid BBC video doesn't want you to know about THESE breeders, because it's not sensational enough. Guys... hybrid vigor is a myth. FOr onr thing, mutts are not hybrids... a hybrid is the cross between SPECIES- horse+jack=mule, tiger+lion=liger, dog+coyote=coydog, etc. Poodle+Lab= MUTT, plain and simple. Do you think the good genes miraculously split into good genes and bad genes, and only the GOOD genes go into a mutt? Hell no... it's a crap shoot, especially since these dogs are never health tested. No one is sending in hip and elbow x rays to OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) if they are breeding mutts. So... breed a dysplastic Lab to a Standard Poodle and you stand a VERY good chance at having dysplastic labradoodles (GOD how I hate the designer dog names!) I have nothing against mutts... love 'em! What I can't stand are the greeders that sell the designer dogs with cutesy names like chorkies, labradoodles, puggles, pomchis, etc and promise HYPOALLERGENIC! NON SHEDDING! HYBRID VIGOR!!! When none of it's true. The buyer is suckered into paying hundreds-or even thousands- of dollars for a MUTT they could have got at the pound. I own purebreds. I have always owned purebreds and always will. I like the predictability of knowing what I am getting physically and temperamentally with a purebred. You don't have that luxury with a mutt. As to pet shops- they get their puppies from puppy mills. I would NEVER buy a puppy from a pet shop, and normally will not buy ANYTHING at a pet shop that sells puppies. Places like PetSmart, that allows rescue organizations to adopt out thru them are great-I got both of my cats this way. Backyard breeders and designer dogs are a special sore spot for me. I fight them with every breath I take. But don't be dissin' the show & hobby breeders. They are the ones doing it RIGHT.
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#24
7th January 2010, 03:43 PM
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#25
7th January 2010, 03:52 PM
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Well... that's not because it's a designer dog... but because neither Yorkies nor Poodles shed. I was refering to dogs like Labrador or Golden/Poodle crosses, who were originally an experiment to create a hypoallergenic guide dog... an experiment that FAILED because they didn't breed true and a VERY small percentage of the puppies inherited the Poodle nonshedding, MOSTLY hypoallergenis coats. The surprise would be if your yorkiepoo DID shed, coming from 2 nonshedding breeds...
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#26
7th January 2010, 04:01 PM
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Respectfully, PapSett, I disagree. I've watched the mania for drop assed GSDs turn a large, stout, foursquare dog into a mincing pansy that can't even run right. Good luck herding sheep with a show GSD, they can't even dodge fast enough to turn a three legged, gravid ewe, let alone a whole herd of fast ones. I watched the mania for needle nosed, overly coated collies turn a smart, strong, rough coated working dog into a brainless, mincing, skinny, useless excuse for a fur coat rack. All Shar Pei's in this country hail from an extremely small breeding population, and it shows. I had a chihuahua thirty five years ago who was show quality. She also topped out at ten pounds, could run five miles behind my bike and, most importantly, did NOT shiver constantly from whatever the fuck that nerve condition is they all seem to have these days. If I had a time machine, and brought her to today she wouldn't be allowed in a show ring, in spite of a pedigree that had more CH in it than a sugar factory. Because her conformation is now thought to be all wrong for the kind of purse dogs with twitching issues that are considered to be the breed standard these days.
Shall we go on? The dachshund--name means "badger hound," and that's what they used to do, fight badgers down a hole. Nowadays a large percentage of the bitches have such weak spines they can't even be bred without substantial human intervention. Don't make me even contemplate how fast even a half dead badger would tear up one of those mincing show specimens. All of these deleterious changes have come about due to changing fashions IN THE SHOW RING, and nothing else. It didn't happen because the people who herd sheep suddenly started breeding dogs that are intrinsically less capable of herding sheep. It didn't happen because farmers decided they could fix their vermin problems better using dogs that can't effectively hunt those vermin. It happened because show breeders decided that the coat of a collie was more important than the brain pan, that the dropped ass of a GSD was more important than it be able to walk right, that the chihuahua needed to get tinier and tinier to the point where the damned things can't do anything a dog is supposed to do, including sit still for a second without twitching like an epileptic on crack. Propaganda is truth you don't like. The truth is those problems are out there. The truth is that breeding for conformation or coat rather than utility tends to reduce the utility of the dog significantly. Inbreeding grotesque specimens generation after generation means even more grotesque specimens. As for the vigor of the mutt--if a batch of accident puppies comes sliding out of the bitch exhibiting some of the issues the purebred dogs do they'd never even make it to the pound--they'd be tied in a sack and drowned, which is what really should have happened to most of those "show quality" animals that still get their genes propagated in spite of the fact that they're walking genetic disasters. And as long as the various kennel clubs allow dogs with genetically transmitted diseases to compete and allow their offspring in the show ring then they are complicit in the continuation of this mess.
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#27
7th January 2010, 04:19 PM
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PapSett, I was just pointing out that not all 'designer dogs' are as awful as you seem to think they are.
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#28
7th January 2010, 04:26 PM
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You have your opinions and I have mine. SOME breeds have been harmed, I never said they haven't. If I were to get a GSD, I would buy from WORKING lines. But SOME breeds are just as good-or BETTER than ever, my own Gordon Setters are one example. The good breeders strive for dogs that can still do their job and look good doing it. Many breeds do. There are still working Dachshunds that achieve their show championships. There are herding dog breeders that get their dogs certified with a herding certificate. Most any hound or sporting dog SHOULD be avle to do the job they were bred for.
The trick is keeping an open mind and open eyes to find the GOOD breeders and not to fall for propaganda like that idiotic BBC video. I'm not arguing. But I have spent 27 years involved in the great sport of dogs and I know what I'm talking about here. We'll just have to agree to disagree, but I will not keep my mouth closed when I see my love-my dogs, my friends, attacked and lies spread through crap like that video.
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#29
7th January 2010, 04:29 PM
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I have no problem with purebreds either - I understand the principles if it's done properly, and I can even accept why some breeders are uncomfortable with the unpredictable results from mixes. I just don't think that those who have different needs than a show dog should be looked down upon.
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#30
7th January 2010, 04:30 PM
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Mutts should never be purposly bred, period. The shelters are FULL of mutts dying every stinking day. While these dogs are being euthed, the greeders are cranking out more to replace them. This is what I despise. The same goes for backyard breeders selling purebreds. Papers don't mean squat if the quality is not there. And... I am NOT looking down on people that don't show. I have 4 dogs... only ONE is show quality. In fact, my little Papillon puppy came from just nthe kind of place I HATE-a BYB. She is one of the ugliest little Papillons I have ever seen. But guess what? I love her with all my heart. Dogs don't have to be show quality to be lovely pets! You are taking what I am saying all wrong. Last edited by PapSett; 7th January 2010 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Addition
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#31
7th January 2010, 04:34 PM
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If you have expertise with dogs, and heck, even if you don't, you can tell that mutts are not all the same. I could not have gone to a shelter and adopted an animal that fit my needs. There's a real problem with elitism that has nothing to do with the ethics of dog breeding here.
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#32
7th January 2010, 04:48 PM
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Today's fancy ass show dog was yesterday's mutt, and that's just a plain fact. Most egregious example is the Dobermann, bred from many different breeds by a guy who worked as a dog catcher. Many other now-recognized breeds were at one time a planned or otherwise cross between other breeds. It's silly to try to pretend that there's some magical gigantic chasm of specialness that divides kennel club recognized breeds from mutts, when all it is is a bit of focused breeding resulting in fairly uniform set of characteristics. Seriously, anyone who tells me they can absolutely differentiate between a Portuguese Water Dog and a Labradoodle is fooling themselves, there's really no functional difference between them and if you substituted in a litter of Labradoodle pups for a litter of Water Dogs I bet they'd go on and show just fine, it's not likely anyone would figure it out as long as the pedigrees said they were Water Dogs. I take the same skeptical view of people who insist their brand of bottled water is objectively better than another, or that they can tell "their" brand of cigarette in a blind taste test.
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#33
7th January 2010, 04:50 PM
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http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/dis...petid=15458114 http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/dis...petid=15459643 http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/dis...petid=15090440 http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/dis...petid=14708493 http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/dis...petid=15217160 That's just a sampling. I am not an elitist. I am a realist. I have seen the damage puppy mills and BYBs do. I have volunteered at shelters and seen wonderful dogs euthed because there are not enough homes to go around. I have no use for the people that put those dog in that position and my opinion will not change. Enjoy your yorkipoo, but don't think I will support the breeding of these designer dogs, ever.
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#34
7th January 2010, 05:04 PM
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The American Eskimo dog was recognized as a breed by the AKC in 1994. Before that? Designer mutts. Nowadays, ooooo, purebred dog! Difference? Sixteen years. Can you actually say that there have been enough generations of Eskies in those sixteen years to be able to say that there's some demonstrable standardization in conformation and behavior that wasn't there twenty years ago, when they were just mutts? Sorry, granting AKC recognition to a dog breed strikes me as being much more of a wand waving than anything having to do with actual scientific breeding and genetic scrutiny.
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#35
7th January 2010, 05:11 PM
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I do have a huge problem even with the AKC. I don't equate them with puppy mills but their standards do damage dogs. German Shepherds are just one example. The AKC standards are purely for looks, but that required look is at the cost of the dogs' original purpose and their health. German standards for the breed don't even consider looks. They're based on intelligence and function:
"There has been much controversy between the German breeders and the American line German shepherd breeders regarding what the perfect German shepherd dog consists of. American breeders have been accused of being so concerned with the appearance of the dog that they have made sacrifices on the quality and temperament. In Germany, before two German shepherd dogs can be bred, they have to pass a Schutzhund test. To become a Schutzhund certified dog, they must complete training and testing based on working ability, drive and temperament. Looks play no part in Schutzhund, so they know when they breed their dogs, they are getting good bloodlines. Another concern the breeders have with the newer American line German shepherd dog is in the low slant of their back end and hips. With the back legs sloped as much as they are, the dog doesn't have the balance they would have if their back were straight - unless the dog is moving forward. They also believe this forced sloping angle is responsible for more shepherds developing hip Dysplasia." Unfortunately the only function American standards value is looks--and at the dogs' cost. As much as I love Shepherds, I'd never buy a pure bred. I was hyper-aware of the risk of hip and joint problems with my Shepherd/Lab mix, just because--IMO--the GSD breed in the US has been deliberately damaged...and for no defensible reason.
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#36
7th January 2010, 05:14 PM
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Smart Alec, you don't have a clue as to what goes into a breed gaining AKC recognition. *I* don't knbow what all goes into it, but I know it involves YEARS, GENERATIONS of record keeping among breeders and the parent club. Yes, breeds were established using other breeds, but they weren't thrown together randomly. They were bred for a PURPOSE.
And your statement abotu labradooddles and Porties being mistaken for one another... that is the most ludicrus statement I have heard in a VERY long time. Any experienced dog person... and most especially a JUDGE... could tell the difference bliondfolded. You are simply proving that you know nothing about dogs with your 'arguments'.
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#37
7th January 2010, 05:25 PM
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#38
7th January 2010, 05:39 PM
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I am so sick of this argument.
The AKC is a REGISTRY. No more. The breed parent clubs set the standards for the breeds, NOT the AKC. All the AKC does is keep track of the registration and pedigrees of dogs. I am out of this argument. I will in the future talk dog with honest to god DOG PEOPLE that have good sense about the subject. And I'm SO sorry my typos offend you so badly. I'm not perfect, but I damn sure know somethign about dogs.
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#39
8th January 2010, 05:25 AM
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Be it resolved: Purebred show breeders select for traits such as appearance, obediance and leash tolerance. Working traits in a dog are too often ignored. The average show lab couldn't bird his way out of a paper bag, whereas the average field lab looks like the lazy ass swamp-running softmouth he should be. The GSD thing is a continuing atrocity that all by itself undermines any credibility the process of showing could ever claim. It's a fairly disgusting subculture all around.
Be it resolved: Designer "breeds" and the backyard shitbags that produce them are full on 100% trailer. TRAILER. Wow. Nice "designer" mutt, you get some bling with that, Paris? Most dogs worth having, and here I'm incredibly biased towards large working breeds, are the product of centuries of breeding. What kind of trumped up white trash do you have to be to think, oh, let me improve on that rottie by crossing it with a motherfucking terrier? And let me go ahead and just shit my little canine creation upon the world because that's how special I am. These "breeders" are the dog world equivalent of a welfare mom roaming the Walmart aisles, six screaming brats in her wake, knocking shit off the shelves and throwing Cheetos at each other. Fucking vile. And it goes without saying that these "breeders" generally give about as much thought to the eventual welfare of their product as they did to the decision to produce it in the first place. Be it resolved: own a fish
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#40
8th January 2010, 08:55 AM
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#43
8th January 2010, 11:00 AM
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A few months ago the posters at Somethingawful.com's Pet Island forums got involved in some kind of internet war with a designer dog breeder, Jennifer's Tiny Hearts. I can't link to the thread because they're blocked from my work, but if you go to their Comedy Goldmine it's archived there, thread title "A new puppy mill right in my city: WELCOME TO AMERICAN!!". It's an interesting read (I read it last night) and it really shows the mentality of some of these breeders.
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#44
8th January 2010, 01:07 PM
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#46
8th January 2010, 02:16 PM
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So I was confused since I was just attacked and not educated. I went on the board to ask them to clear up my confusion and was just totally attacked again. Here you have someone willing to learn and listen to what you want everyone to know about the plight of shelter dogs and the issues with breeding for looks and not work, and they blew it by dog piling me and name calling. It was brutal. I was so pissed off...like pissed like a message board made me pissed IRL. For days! So I just deleted the link in my favorites and never went back there again. It was just condescending, cliquey, and elitist. Obviously on a GSD-specific message board, at there had to have been a handful that had gotten their GSDs from shoddy breeders. Instead of using it as an opportunity to inform, they let their blanket anger take over.
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#47
8th January 2010, 02:29 PM
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The way I see it is that all the dogs are dogs--it's not their fault some asshole of a BYB made them happen and they're just as entitled to a happy home as any shelter mutt. So I don't see the point in being a total bitch to those who're still buying purebred dogs from breeders. Better to point out alternatives, lead by example, correct wrong information and reserve the invective for the apologists who defend the whole damned mess and refuse to admit there's a problem that needs fixing systemically. I reserve a similar RAEG towards those who knowingly breed horses that carry or have a genetically caused seizure malady called HYPP that can cause a horse to suddenly fall over, which could potentially cause the death of a rider. Breeders who breed known positive horses are bad enough, but the breed registries that won't refuse the registration of horses carrying the disease are even worse. Talk about abdicating responsibility.
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#48
8th January 2010, 02:42 PM
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I agree
But it took someone sitting down and calmly explaining this like an adult and a human being for me to listen. I know people are passionate about both sides...breeders that breed correctly and those against breeding carelessly and ignore animals in shelters. I know that passion surfaces easily. It's just so much easier to take a step back, take a deep breath, and then have a convo like grown ups!
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#49
8th January 2010, 02:56 PM
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Any breeder who resists controls on breeding animals with genetic anomalies and diseases tips their hand as to how much they actually value the breed over their own drives. For that matter, why would purebred dog breeders sell unaltered animals that don't have the potential for gathering show points, and/or sell them to people who have no intention of showing? Those are animals that should be safely spayed/neutered before they ever leave the breeder, and if they aren't then why should I believe those breeders when they insist that their only priority is the welfare of the breed and the dogs?
As for trusting breeders to decide how a breed should look, all I can say is that people willingly own Chinese Cresteds and think they're cute. Now there's a dog that has no reason for living, since any dog that gets sunburned and develops zits if it gets out in the sun and nobody smears lotion on it would not survive long enough to pass on its defective genes. Yet here they are. *shudder*
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#50
8th January 2010, 03:14 PM
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We had him neutered at 10 months, but they never followed up to make sure we made good on our promise. They didn't ask for proof from the vet. WE then moved from Minnesota to Virginia and could've been breeding him and they would've been none the wiser. I reached out to the breeder and sent her pictures of him and told her how we had him in therapy classes. She seemed happy to see the pictures...but it would've been nice to have her adamant about what happens to the dogs she churned out. A neutered/spayed dog is definitely not a deal breaker for me. I guess they can't neuter/spay an 8 week old dog (although docking/cropping are probably not that much better than the spay).
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